In a rare interview, the South African demands
> that George W. Bush win United Nations support
> before attacking Iraq
>
> NEWSWEEK WEB EXCLUSIVE
>
>
> Sept. 10 - Nelson Mandela, 84, may be the world's
most
> respected statesman. Sentenced to life in prison on
> desolate Robben Island in 1964 for advocating armed
> resistance to apartheid in South Africa, the African
> National Congress leader emerged in 1990 to lead his
> country in a transition to non-racial elections. As
> president, his priority was racial reconciliation;
> today South Africans of all races refer to him by
his
> Xhosa clan honorific, Madiba. Mandela stepped down
in
> 1999 after a single five-year term. He now heads two
> foundations focused on children. He met with
NEWSWEEK'S
> Tom Masland early Monday morning in his office in
> Houghton, a Johannesburg suburb, before flying to
> Limpopo Province to address traditional leaders on
the
> country's AIDS crisis. Excerpts:
>
> NEWSWEEK: Why are you speaking out on Iraq? Do you
want
> to mediate, as you tried to on the Mideast a couple
of
> years ago? It seems you are reentering the fray now.
>
> Nelson Mandela: If I am asked, by credible
> organizations, to mediate, I will consider that very
> seriously. But a situation of this nature does not
need
> an individual, it needs an organization like the
United
> Nations to mediate. We must understand the
seriousness
> of this situation. The United States has made
serious
> mistakes in the conduct of its foreign affairs,
which
> have had unfortunate repercussions long after the
> decisions were taken. Unqualified support of the
Shah
> of Iran led directly to the Islamic revolution of
1979.
> Then the United States chose to arm and finance the
> [Islamic] mujahedin in Afghanistan instead of
> supporting and encouraging the moderate wing of the
> government of Afghanistan. That is what led to the
> Taliban in Afghanistan. But the most catastrophic
> action of the United States was to sabotage the
> decision that was painstakingly stitched together by
> the United Nations regarding the withdrawal of the
> Soviet Union from Afghanistan. If you look at those
> matters, you will come to the conclusion that the
> attitude of the United States of America is a threat
to
> world peace. Because what [America] is saying is
that
> if you are afraid of a veto in the Security Council,
> you can go outside and take action and violate the
> sovereignty of other countries. That is the message
> they are sending to the world. That must be
condemned
> in the strongest terms. And you will notice that
> France, Germany Russia, China are against this
> decision. It is clearly a decision that is motivated
by
> George W. Bush's desire to please the arms and oil
> industries in the United States of America. If you
look
> at those factors, you'll see that an individual like
> myself, a man who has lost power and influence, can
> never be a suitable mediator.
>
> Newsweek: What about the argument that's being made
> about the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass
destruction
> and Saddam's efforts to build a nuclear weapons.
After
> all, he has invaded other countries, he has fired
> missiles at Israel. On Thursday, President Bush is
> going to stand up in front of the United Nations and
> point to what he says is evidence of...
>
> Mandela: .Scott Ritter, a former United Nations arms
> inspector who is in Baghdad, has said that there is
no
> evidence whatsoever of [development of weapons of]
mass
> destruction. Neither Bush nor [British Prime
Minister]
> Tony Blair has provided any evidence that such
weapons
> exist. But what we know is that Israel has weapons
of
> mass destruction. Nobody talks about that. Why
should
> there be one standard for one country, especially
> because it is black, and another one for another
> country, Israel, that is white.
>
> Newsweek: So you see this as a racial question?
>
> Mandela: Well, that element is there. In fact, many
> people say quietly, but they don't have the courage
to
> stand up and say publicly, that when there were
white
> secretary generals you didn't find this question of
the
> United States and Britain going out of the United
> Nations. But now that you've had black secretary
> generals like Boutros Boutros Ghali, like Kofi
Annan,
> they do not respect the United Nations. They have
> contempt for it. This is not my view, but that is
what
> is being said by many people.
>
> Newsweek: What kind of compromise can you see that
> might avoid the coming confrontation?
>
> Mandela: There is one compromise and one only, and
that
> is the United Nations. If the United States and
Britain
> go to the United Nations and the United Nations says
we
> have concrete evidence of the existence of these
> weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and we feel that
we
> must do something about it, we would all support it.
>
> Newsweek: Do you think that the Bush
administration's
> U.N. diplomatic effort now is genuine, or is the
> President just looking for political cover by
speaking
> to the U.N. even as he remains intent on forging
ahead
> unilaterally?
>
> Mandela: Well, there is no doubt that the United
States
> now feels that they are the only superpower in the
> world and they can do what they like. And of course
we
> must consider the men and the women around the
> president. Gen. Colin Powell commanded the United
> States army in peacetime and in wartime during the
Gulf
> war. He knows the disastrous effect of international
> tension and war, when innocent people are going to
die,
> young men are going to die. He knows and he showed
this
> after September 11 last year. He went around
briefing
> the allies of the United States of America and
asking
> for their support for the war in Afghanistan. But
> people like Dick Cheney. I see yesterday there was
an
> article that said he is the real president of the
> United States of America, I don't know how true that
> is. Dick Cheney, [Defense secretary Donald]
Rumsfeld,
> they are people who are unfortunately misleading the
> president. Because my impression of the president is
> that this is a man with whom you can do business.
But
> it is the men who around him who are dinosaurs, who
do
> not want him to belong to the modern age. The only
man,
> the only person who wants to help Bush move to the
> modern era is Gen. Colin Powell, the secretary of
> State.
>
> Newsweek: I gather you are particularly concerned
about
> Vice President Cheney?
>
> Mandela: Well, there is no doubt. He opposed the
> decision to release me from prison (laughs). The
> majority of the U.S. Congress was in favor of my
> release, and he opposed it. But it's not because of
> that. Quite clearly we are dealing with an arch-
> conservative in Dick Cheney.
>
> Newsweek: I'm interested in your decision to speak
out
> now about Iraq. When you left office, you said, 'I'm
> going to go down to Transkei, and have a rest.' Now
> maybe that was a joke at the time. But you've been
very
> active.
>
> Mandela: I really wanted to retire and rest and
spend
> more time with my children, my grandchildren and of
> course with my wife. But the problems are such that
for
> anybody with a conscience who can use whatever
> influence he may have to try to bring about peace,
it's
> difficult to say no.
>
> (c) 2002 Newsweek, Inc.
>
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